How to Rise Above Butterfly Conversations
I hate wasting time in conversations that bounce around and never arrive. Talk – for the sake of talk – is for Saturday morning coffee with friends. But, successful leaders itch for next steps and paths to better.
Impatience is practically
a virtue for leaders who get things done.
Lousy conversations bounce like butterflies on sunny days, lots of movement but no progress. Butterfly conversations:
- Waste time.
- Make dark situations darker.
- Validate helplessness. “I guess it’s too complicated to do anything.”
- Console even though nothing changed. “We tried.”
Beginning:
Power conversations begin with pressing questions. How do I correct an employee? How do I overcome the feeling that I’m not enough? What path should I take?
Lost:
Power conversations get lost in empathy and detail. Explanations and clarifications confuse rather than clarify.
People who ask questions,
want and need to talk about themselves.
Show empathy by listening to details but, whatever you do, don’t address them. The details are for them not you.
Power moment:
Conversations become powerful after details spill out and you ask, “What’s the question?” again.
Don’t deal with the details.
Listen for the real question.
Real questions appear after details are shared. “How do I correct an employee?” becomes, “How do I deal with my fear of tough conversations?”
Power conversations:
- Address real, not surface, questions.
- Focus on the person in front of you not others.
- Don’t solve everything.
- Develop simple imperfect paths forward.
- Include, “When can we follow up on this next week?”
Power follow-up:
After details are given and questions clarified, ask:
- What’s important about this?
- What does a win look like?
- What do you look like if you find your answer?
- How will you be different?
- What three steps can you take toward winning?
Bonus material: “Seven Simple Steps from Can’t to Can.”
How do you keep conversations moving toward useful solutions?
Love the shift from encouraging people to think outwardly to encouraging them to look inside themselves. It deepens the conversation and seeks out the heart of the matter. And there’s power in the follow-up! What use is such a discussion if it falls off the face of the earth?
Thanks Justin,
You capture an important skill… We get over anxious to find an answer. In the end, we answer the wrong questions.
Ahh yes…. part of a leaders job is to teach how to have more effective conversations and pull the flighty, rambling conversations back on track.
I find this true in groups too. Maybe getting off track is even more of a problem in groups.
Dear Dan,
For the few weeks, perhaps I am engaged in butterfly conversations with some friends. Conversations leads to nowhere, there is no point of directed discussion. And moreover, I have realized that it is more of a time killing than learning. Now, I feel this is really an issue that needs attention.
I think, conversations should be focused to move to useful solutions. At the same time, people engaged should develop sense to find out solutions rather than showing their presence. To find out workable solution, it is important to understand others need.
I appreciate your point of developing imperfect paths forwards and not solving everything. But the additional question arises who is the person other side. When the person needs everything ready made, then this could be difficult to practice. At the same time, when other person is ambitious and willing to move, he or she can find out the better solutions to even the most difficult problems.
Thanks Ajay,
As I read your comment I thought about the importance of taking time to formulate the right question…something as simple as, “What are we talking about?” “Why does it matter?” and/or “What are we trying to solve?” might be useful.
I’m frustrated when suggested steps forward aren’t “good enough.” Sometimes it means we need to go back and formulate a better question. Other times, it’s foot dragging.
When people refuse to move because the solution is imperfect, I say, “I see what we can’t do. What CAN we do?” If nothing good results from that question, I move on. I’m not going to waste any more time.
don’t you think that some fluff conversations are in order to develop trust?
It seems to me one thing that is very hard as a leader is to get people to tell you where they really “are” in terms to issues.
This is a great point. I know in Europe and Middle Eastern countries it’s rude to get straight to business during a conversation. The initial small talk or butterfly talk is part of breaking the ice and relationship building. Most Americans are not use to this but it is a subtlety of their communication culture.
Thanks Billgncs,
Great add to the topic of conversations. The context here is when someone comes with a question. But, “small” talk as a trust building tool has it’s place. And as you indicate, culture is an important factor. Perhaps personality applies as well.
I appreciate your observation.
thanks – some employees will only tell you what you want to hear, which makes it difficult to help them advance and find satisfaction within their position.
This is especially true for new hires.
I agree with Dan that it is very important to get to the point. We can waste far too much time on “what if’s” and background information. Getting to the point is a skill that must be used consistently. However, I also agree with billgncs that effective leaders must allow time for personal discussions. People are willing to commit, follow and engage only after they have formed emotional connections with someone. The challenge seems to be in finding which topics forge connections and which are simply time wasters. Thanks to both of you for valuable discussion…a powerful conversation.
I find the other trap in these “butterfly” moments is when the topic or matter is concluded with a statement like “OK that’s decided…” when in fact nothing has been decided and the direction is not clear.
Such false conclusions need to be wrestled to the ground …”Exactly what has been decided, can we be clear on what we’ve agreed, how it improves the current situation and who does what by when to implement this change..?”
Thanks Richard,
I see the sweat dripping and the snot flowing in wrestling match.
It takes courage to follow up premature conclusions with, “Tell me again what has been decided.” But, that’s exactly what leaders do. Clarity is a gift hard come by.
Yes, it is true that some conversation, some of the time, does not overtly lead to consensus, decisions, and action aligned with objectives. Such is the nature of conversarion itself. As you point out, Dan, people say – and don’t say – things for many reasons. Not all challenges are the same. When everyone knows the right answer, our conversations can move quickly and easily to consensus and action. When a great answer is knowable by aski g experts, we can still examine the options together and make a choice.
So why doesn’t this happen often and easily? In my experience, it is the two-headed dragon of power and fear. The things we say in conversation reflect our sense of ourselves in the org; our sense of our relationship to others; and our sense of what to do together. But we are constantly pushed and pulled by the dynamics of power relating, which typically reflects some set of fear(s).
The work of conversation- even conversation that does not seem to produce a clear outcome and actions – is both hard, and fundamental to really leading change. Here are three links to great thinkers/teachers/consultants whose work with how we can and do converse, shows us a way forward. It isn’t always easy, but it’s always important:
Patricia Shaw describes her very unique approach to “changing conversations in organizations.” This is the title of her book, and the essence of her approach to both consulting and change leadership.
http://teaching.fec.anu.edu.au/MGMT7030/Shaw%20-%20Shadow%20and%20Complexity.pdf
Here, Chris Rodgers, author of Informal Coalitions, reviews Patricia Shaw’s ideas, and offers a great analysis of how conversation happens in organizations, and how we can think about, and work with it to influence change.
http://informalcoalitions.typepad.com/informal_coalitions/2006/12/changing_the_co.html
Here is a summary from the great Peter Block, about the “six conversations that matter.” Peter was among the first to recognize that “the conversation IS the work.” If you have ever been with Peter in a workshop, you know he doesn’t believe in report-outs from table group conversations, etc. We change in the moment of being engaged in conversation.
http://www.abundantcommunity.com/home/posts/peter_block/parms/1/post/20110705_six_conversations_that_matter_a_quick_review.html
Enjoy, learn, lead.
Thanks Bruce,
I see your passion burning through on this topic. Much appreciated you taking a few simple ideas and extending the conversation.
By the way, Peter Block is a guy who really kicks me in the pants. His ideas are amazing, challenging, uncomfortable, and useful.
I suppose, in the context of Block’s 6 conversations, this post is about conversations that begin with someone coming to us with a problem to solve or a question – especially of a personal nature- to answer.
AMEN. Good stuff.
People need to be heard but its the leader’s job to sift through the emotions, innuendos, veiled statements, insecurities, ignorance, assumptions, etc to get down to the nitty gritty. For this I would suggest “The Method.” Now it doesn’t work in all situations but it works in a whole lot of them and can be modified or tweaked. “The Method” is a script that should be followed after the venting has occurred. These questions and actions get the conversation back into focus and allows the leader to direct conversation towards solutions and advancement.
1. Have you discussed with XXX?
There is very often a chain of command, pecking order, etc that folks are supposed to use when running stuff up the flag pole. Require folks to honor this protocol and then deal with the issues which have done so. If you make it a habit to entertain minutia then you undermine the authority of those who have the responsibility of doing so and take up a lot of your valuable time. If the issue has been discussed with the appropriate parties and there has been no resolution then you need to get “the players” in the room together.
2. Have you told xxx what your concerns are?
When #1 is not valid then this should come into play. People manage conflict by avoidance and sometimes as leaders you have to put the onus back on the person to deal with their own problems. Support them in doing so in respectful ways but don’t always be the “bad cop.”
3. Require the naming of names…make them be specific
Your time is valuable. If an issue is brought to you for handling then you need the specifics. Don’t do the electric slide for 20 minutes and play 20 questions to figure out the who, the what, the when, and the how just because they don’t want to be direct. (That’s probably part of the problem)
4. Define the next steps
What others assume and what actions you will take could be very different. Let them know what you plan to do and if possible give a time line. Give the bringer of the problem some action steps (if appropriate) so that they are engaged in the resolution. Don’t take ownership of the problem, facilitate the reaching of a decision/resolution.
5. Follow up and follow through.
This keeps you credible. If you are going to make a decision then make it and be done with it. Don’t beat around the bush if you don’t have to do so (in some cases because of politics or sensitive issues it may be necessary for you to do so…)
6. Close Out
If the case is closed and you are no longer giving it your energy, effort, time, attention, then don’t leave folks hanging. Once you get to this point inform folks.
Wow…that was a lot. I think I have my next blog post! 🙂
Thanks ENNA,
I agree, Wow!! Lots of useful info… looks like a blog post to me. Just start with a great problem and then give us your answer.
I appreciate your sensitivity to the chain of command. We might not like it but it’s a reality that needs attention.
I posted it on my blog and linked to your article!
http://wp.me/p3NHbU-ly
I wish it were practical to tattoo the Power conversations and Power follow-up bullets on my arm. The follow-up questions really drive the solutions home. Thanks, Dan.
Thanks bimuse,
Now if I can just slow down long enough to ask those pesky follow-ups. 🙂
My experience is that some people, no matter how gently (or not) or how often you try to lead them to brevity, simply cannot leave out all the back story leading up to their issue at hand.
You have captured the essence of the leadership skill that must be employed here, Dan: Show empathy, listen to the details, but whatever you do, resist the urge to get pulled off onto the tangent of addressing them. “The details are for them not you.” It’s important to listen then after the details are out, ALWAYS come back to, “What’s your question again?”
Your post today is a terrific reminder for me, because it’s not always easy for me to avoid being pulled off onto those tangents; because, as a leader, I consider myself a problem solver. So my first inclination is to help our people resolve all their issues — not just the ones essential to the task at hand.
Thanks Scott,
I’m a great weed dweller… I get lost there at a moments notice.
Someone says something in the details that isn’t exactly right and boommm… I want to correct an inaccuracy and an hour later, who can remember the dang question we started with… ugh!
For starters I am powerless.
I find if Iive with the idea I am going to expire at midnight I got what 12 hours awake?
So with 12 hours awake and I see a person in that time it could be the last time I ever see them. How am I gonna treat them? See them as annoying and wasting my time!!! Wow I am an arrogant JERK!!!! Boo me!!!!
Looking at things in this way I am not likely to trivialize THAT opportunity to share time with them for the last time!
There are NO trivial conversations only sometime when I am fully operational in my self obsessed self centredness I choose to perceive another person as trivial.
As I offer myself to God to use me as he/she sees fit to be if maximum service to myself and gods other kids there are NO trivial encounters.
I expect a plethora of thumbs downs from me me me me I I I I folks who can only think of the spiritual being having a human experience through the lens of how it concerns them!!!
All cool used to have that perspective myself!!! Only thing I got for you is…Good Luck wit Dat!!
SP back to now with a really cool perspective!!!
I love to login to my Bloglovin profile and see that you have been updating your blog. You are on the point using only 300 words. Not bad 🙂 Inspirational stuff for leaders to ponder upon. Thanks 🙂
Toward the latter part of my Air Force career I discovered powerful questioning. It transformed my whole approach to leadership and quite frankly, removed a good deal of stress from the burden of leadership.
Asking good questions helps people discover the answer for themselves and helps them grow in the process.
Not to mention the fact that the quality of your relationships tends to strengthen and deepen.