Great Leaders aren’t Emotional
Steve Jobs was 25 when Jay Elliot joined Apple. Back then, Steve used to say, “Don’t trust anyone over 30, except Jay.” That’s the kind of guy Jay Elliot is, he draws people to himself because he’s trustable. (Pt. 1 of my conversation with Jay)
My conversation with Jay turned to leaders and their emotions.
Interview
LF: Jay, are you an emotional leader?
JE: Very. I have very strong emotions.
LF: I’m surprised by that because, in my mind, emotion creates ups and downs, inconsistency.
JE: Ahh, I agree. I do feel very strong emotions. But successful leaders exercise strong control of their emotions.
Jay went on to explain that people in his organization see the same Jay every morning. He’s always consistent. He might have been up half the night grappling with an issue but when you see him the next day, you wouldn’t know it. “I’m a steady-Eddy person.”
LF: Steady-Eddy people seem unemotional to me, can you explain how you are an emotional leader.
JE: I’m glad to clarify.
- I’m a passionate leader, not an emotional leader.
- Don’t express passion toward teams or groups.
- Always focus your passion on the product.
- Express compassion toward people.
Jay passionately went off on an explanation of compassion versus passion.
JE: Great people are often hardest on themselves. You don’t have to beat them up. Missing deadlines bothers them more than it bothers you. Let them beat themselves up. You be the encourager.
“Compassion is best expressed in
enthusiasm for what they are doing.”
Lesson learned
Jay’s explanation of passion and compassion illustrates the difference between great and average leaders. Average leaders can’t manage passion and compassion. Either they are filled with passion and run over people. Or, they are filled with compassion and people run over them. On the other hand, great leaders have emotional control, passion for products, and enthusiasm for what others are doing.
Other episodes of my interview with Jay:
Pt. 1: Plan execution: From an Apple Sr. V.P.
Pt. 3: A Sliver of Light
How can leaders balance the tension between passion and compassion?
Jay Elliot is an entrepreneur and author of, “The Steve Jobs Way: ileadership for a new Generation.”
Unique insight on passion, compassion, and emotion. Makes me think about the principles in “Working With Emotional Intelligence” by Goleman, et al.
Passion that is harnessed produces a powerful force for good. Not to mention, the leader stays strong and doesn’t burnout.
Hi
Interesting view on the balance between passion and compassion … and their impact on quality of leadership. I certainly agree that a great leader needs high levels of emotional literacy and to use this judiciously. However I also believe that a great leader expressing passion for their organisation’s purpose [my working career has been focused on delivering services not products] to his or her team/organisation is hugely motivating too … so I’m not sure if I’m disagreeing with Jay’s view about not expressing passion towards teams or groups! Maybe it’s a moot point!
Thanks
John
Interesting perspective. I like the compassion part. I think Jay is correct about “great people” being generally self-correcting—and it is wise to allow, and sometimes coach them through making the most of a wrong turn.
Personally, though, I don’t like the idea of “controlling emotions,” though I’m sure that’s often said or written as shorthand for how we regulate our expression of emotions, or make internal choices about them.
Still, when discussing emotions, I prefer to break it down, and get real specific about handling them:
Pay close attention to them.
Listen and learn from what they are telling you.
Treat (make the necessary changes in thought or choice to transmute constrictive emotion to expansive emotion, or get to a better feeling place in thought or action).
When it is best to express, express them in an appropriate way.
Always consider the nature of relationship in deciding what level of emotion, passion or even compassion is appropriate or authentic to express (level of intimacy, type of business or network relationship, etc.)
Our emotions are our very best friends. I think of them as traffic signals. It is a silly to dislike or rail against a particular emotion as it is to belittle or disregard a traffic signal that saves damage and lives… and “controlling” them is merely an illusion. We can’t destroy energy, we can only change it’s form.
🙂
Wow, seems my list HTML didn’t work this time. Sorry for the ugly post. 🙂
I agree with you Mark about controlling emotions…right about the time you think you are controlling them, whoops, something comes out sideways.
As you noted we may regulate them or manage them…probably is rare that we lead them. I like your process with them and might add listen to see where they are coming from.
And, wow, getting into quantum physics at the end of your post! 😉
Thanks Doc.
I am glad that you spelled out the “listen to where they are coming from…” That bit I include in “Listen and learn what they are telling you” in my workshops, but I think it is important enough to spell out separately, and I will do that in the future. Thank you for that input!
Oh yes, quantum physics.:) It’s funny, I have frequently, successfully integrated physics into discussions of stress and emotions… but alway when it feels appropriate for the audience.
I like your image of something coming out sideways… LOL… Yeah, that’s why suppression doesn’t work! Suppression creates a pressure cooker and something has to give.
There are SO many things we can do before an emotion comes to the point where we are even considering suppression. Appropriate communication and aligning desires and beliefs are a few that come to mind. 🙂
Thanks again for the reply and the input.
~M
I totally agree with Jay. Compassion is what we have to get to. That was the point of a post I wrote called, “Why Empathy Isn’t Enough” (http://geoffreywebb.wordpress.com/2010/04/07/why-empathy-isnt-enough/)
Great interviews, Dan! Keep up the terrific work!
Dear Dan,
Emotion is integral part of leadership. The way to manage it decides effectiveness of leader. I agree that emotional balance and control is very important. Passion is the stronger form of emotion. So, emotion drives passion. That means you can not be passionalte without having emotion. Other fact is that source of emotion is heart and source of passion is mind. Passion is driven by heart as well as mind both. So, one can have passion without emotion, but intensity will be low. Therefore, I believe that higher the emotion, higher the passion.
I think leaders can balance the tension between passion and compassion by controling emotion. If emotion is in control, it yields significant result and when it is beyond control, it damages. So, powerful leaders express positive emotions but suppress negative emotion, because it can have disastrous impact on people. Emotion is rudder that directions passion and compassion in right direction.
Will have to percolate the tension angle with passion and compassion. I see them on a continuum of emotions, so would suppose a tension point might be when the leader lets them overlap too much and it gets muddy. And that speaks to Jay’s point of consistency beyond the emotional layer.
For an organization, what may be of higher value, passion or compassion?
I lean toward passion as it can be converted (thnx Mark), directed or maybe even expanded in ways that help focus the organization’s vision and journey. Passion feels proactive.
Compassion may not immediately provide that boost as it is more of a retrospective or reactive emotion. At the same time and perhaps this is the overlap, compassion may lay a foundation of understanding which benefits a healthy culture as well. Compassion may be one of the markers that we use to track our journey.
Well put, Doc…
You inspired another thought with your post: some attention to expression of compassion is probably important. There can’t be a hint of superiority or patronization—no faking. Compassion isn’t something we TRY to do, it is a natural reaction to empathy, and seeing the value and spirit of another human being. In such cases, we may still wish to regulate the expression of compassion based on appropriateness of the relationship and situation.
~M
Riffing off your point Mark, timing is everything!
And, for grins, why do I see a poster of Yoda in this? Underneath it says”
“Compassion, try not, only do or not do.”
You know, for me personally, this post didn’t really need any words at all – it could have been a piece of reflective glass secured to a handle (a mirror). This line completely struck home: “Either they are filled with passion and run over people. Or, they are filled with compassion and people run over them.”
I have struggled, both as a subordinate and when I supervised people, with the disconnect between how much I love this cause and these people and some work-related deliverables that I failed to meet my goals on. (I wrote about one instance where that was utterly clear here: http://waytenmom.blogspot.com/2010/11/broken-mama-kat-writing-workshop-prompt.html) This post helps me frame that question and hopefully will help me reframe my strategy.
In addition, my “parenting antenna” went up at the passage about how you should “let your leaders beat themselves up.” As a parent it is so tempting to try to talk your child “out” of whatever “down on themselves” message they are expressing about themselves. While we don’t want our kids to have poor self esteem, that’s different than stepping back and letting them do the developmental work that they have to do in order to grow into resilient adults capable of managing some rough seas in the school/work world.
Paula – May I just say, “ditto” and sit back and enjoy the conversation! I am bringing Leadership Freak to our next department meeting
Quite coincidently, a friend of mine is currently listening to Alan Hassenfeld (former Hasbro CEO), guest lecturer, at his MBA seminar in Boston. Alan has just quoted “controlled passion is the most important leadership ingredient”.
Reading the conversation above, I tend to think that finding the right balance of both passion and compassion is incredibly difficult and will, as Mark pointed out above depend on “appropriateness of the relationship and situation.”
I also think that it will depend on peoples personality types. I am more compassionate than passionate. So I will tend to lean that way. However, I need to be aware of this and compensate accordingly.
thanks for the site Dan, and thanks to the contributors of this conversation. I have enjoyed reading this and mulling things over.
“finding the right balance of both passion and compassion is incredibly difficult”…interesting Kate, gave me pause. If so, is it also incredibly important?
Hi Doc
I agree with your comment about balancing passion and compassion as being important.
In my mind, by saying it was difficult, I was implying it was important but I didn’t express it. Goes to show you can think something but your fingers don’t get to write it.
There is a danger that by stating that something is difficult it will cause people to not try. If something it too much like hard work, then it can turn people off. I hope these posts and the resulting conversations have encouraged people rather than deterred them.
Doc, thanks for the response.
In the military, we frame the passion vs. compassion tension in terms of the relative emphasis on mission and people. One leadership question that comes up is “which is more important, the mission or the people?” Sort of a chicken and egg problem, because the mission can’t get done without the people but (ultimately) people often die to accomplish the organization’s goals.
Like Paula, I also see the implications in parenting. We want kids to develop both passion and compassion. We want them to be competent (even excellent) but we want to protect their self-worth, too. Detachment is more difficult for me as a parent than as a professional. And detachment is what’s required to keep one’s emotions under control. Doesn’t mean you don’t FEEL your feelings — they may be really intense — just means you choose how to express them.
“JE: Great people are often hardest on themselves. You don’t have to beat them up. Missing deadlines bothers them more than it bothers you. Let them beat themselves up. You be the encourager….. Compassion is best expressed in enthusiasm for what they are doing.”
This paragraph in this interview segment had the most impact for me. Emphasis on “great people” of course.
I’m not sure what to add as far as how to balance the tension between passion and compassion. Certainly it’s a tight rope I’m familiar with as well many others here. When it comes to disappointing outcomes from a team member, I try to keep things in their control by having them come up with solutions to the issue. When it comes to volunteers (like for the school), it’s not worth it to me to have a conniption or to take over and do it myself. That does not a team or a leader or a community make. And as Jay points out, good people are hard enough on themselves. Instead I reassert the need and encourage them to find a solution. There’s no need to make mistakes or failures anything more than they are. OK, so that fund-raising opportunity was missed or failed. We’re still shy a new micro-scope for middle school science lab. Now what? And as in our case, maybe now that means we switch gears about trying to raise money to buy it new ourselves. Maybe we try to find something used, or see if a company somewhere will donate one outright, etc..
I do like Jay’s approach that compassion is for people and passion is for projects. The language fits perfectly.
Great thoughts and great topic. Looking forward to the expansion of the topic.
Awesome read, Dan. Such a great point re: balancing passion and compassion and Jay’s point about controlling those emotions. Leaders are able to evangelize and motivate simultaneously, reading the situation (as you and Jay both inferred) carefully due to their high emotional intelligence.
EI in leaders, I think, represents the balance you discuss. Jay, with his steady-eddy personality absolutely has it.
Great blog as always.
Mike
Yeah. That’s just good stuff. Excellent post, Dan. Thanks.
Susan,
Thanks for your first comment on Leadership Freak.
Cheers,
Dan
please send email
Good points here. Some of the semantics make me wonder if we’re talking about the same “passion” and “emotion” but good read non-the-less.
I like the post – makes a lot of sense.
Those pair of waxed, pedicured legs are walking on a table with a groove, enhanced on photoshop – I don’t see the excitement of walking tight rope in them. (excuse my guilty pleasure of nitpicking, I couldn’t help it)